Destiny 2 Annual Pass Changes How Expansions Are Delivered

Games Destiny
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Today’s Destiny 2: Forsaken reveal brought a whole lot more than just information on Destiny 2’s September content expansion. Bungie detailed numerous changes that are coming to make Destiny 2 a wildly different game than it has been since launch. Just about every change they are making comes from community feedback and finding the best solutions to those issues that are a good balance for everyone.

To make sure that more players can access new content and chase power in the game, Bungie is introducing the Destiny 2 Annual Pass in the second year of the game’s life. Instead of the individual expansions, the Annual Pass grants full access to every content drop coming through September 2019. More information will be coming later this week regarding the season pass and what the next year of Destiny 2 holds.
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It looks like the Annual Pass is essentially a subscription that grants players access to a full year’s worth of content in a one-time payment. The Destiny 2 Annual Pass will cover three content drops up until summer 2019.

Black Armory (Winter 2018)
Joker’s Wild (Spring 2019)
Penumbra (Summer 2019)
The reveal live stream showed that each of these premium content drops will reinvent the way they sustain the hobby. Here are the bullet points that Bungie outlined for each of these releases.

New endgame challenges
New weapons, armor, and vanity rewards
New and returning exotics
New pinnacle activities
New triumph records to collect
New lore to discover
Before we get to the content coming with the Forsaken Annual Pass however, Destiny 2: Forsaken will be launching September 4 bringing a ton of new content and changes to the game based on nearly a year’s worth of customer feedback. Bungie will be spending the summer revealing additional information about future updates, with the next big event being E3 next week. We’ll be bringing you our own hands-on coverage with Gambit, the new PvP/PvE hybrid mode, straight from the show floor.

Are you excited to see Bungie switching to a different and more comprehensive model for their content releases instead of piecing out each content expansion? We’ll let you know on Thursday what additional things Bungie reveals about the Destiny 2 Annual Pass.

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A discussion of the New DLC and the annual pass led to a discussion of DLC and subscriptions in general over in discord

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@axess2084 @BrambledWhiskey @koldfront_kraig @anon3687162 @ixL0N3W0LFxi @Lala_Calamari

I think the spirit of the Discussion is a base game less than a full game or are expansion truly expansion…and are subscriptions a thing good or bad?

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----Transcript from Discord----

Axess - Today at 9:41 PM
Well, I’ve been gaming for 40+ years. I started in 1976. The first computer I ever played games on looked like this:

So, I’ve been at this a very long time. I DO NOT like the parting-out of games and turning it into a cash cow. Keeping the game ‘fresh’ is a bit of a cop out. Sorry @valiantvictory , no disrespect meant. I just disagree with you on that. When I pay $60 for a game, I expect a decent experience worth $60. I don’t gauge it by how much time I spend on a game per week. I gauge it on the quality of what I bought for $60, the replayability, and the longevity of the game. I find that too many people have allowed these companies to play fast and loose with their customers’ money and that resulted in some very anti-consumer practices like: withholding game content to sell it as DLC, Loot Boxes, Pay-To-Win $60 games, and other practices like that. This is what I’m talking about:(edited)

Games never used to be like that. In fact, they weren’t even like that until the 2nd half of last gen (Xbox 360 and PS3).

With the advent of high speed internet and the brainwashing of younger gamers by continually using dirty tactics like employees on message boards and in the audience at E3, holding advertising revenue over review website’s owners’ heads if they give a bad review, and the bribing of YouTubers/Game Streamers in the form of early access to games before anyone else has it and getting the game for free as long as they give it a good review.
These things poison the industry and drive quality into the toilet at a higher price. This whole ‘Games As A Service’ nonsense is a prime example. People are getting sick of it. Sooner or later, the industry will crash again. Not as big as it did in the 1980’s. But, I think it will because it’s following the same script again: Quantity over Quality with a dusting of Anti-Consumer practices.

Gaming is more ‘mainstream’ now than it’s ever been. So, it’s not just for nerds like me anymore. We used to demand quality when we got games back in the day and that caused the crash as the console people moved from Atari to computer games.

So, with the general public (who, IMO, are as dumb as a box of rocks), they don’t really know any better. They are dazzled by flashy advertising like CGI trailers at E3 without seeing any gameplay at all. Usually, you hear them say stuff like this afterward: “Whoa!! That was so cool!! I’m pre-ordering that right now!! I gotta have that game!! It looks so awesome!” - or something to that effect.

The game company doesn’t even need to show ANY gameplay to sell their game - just a flashy ad and people lose their minds! That’s the effect of casuals gaming. I saw a lot of it when Sony revealed their Tetris VR trailer and people were losing their minds over it. I was absolutely gob-smacked! I couldn’t believe it. It’s a 30+ year old game and people were flipping out because it will be in VR. Sure, it’s an interesting gimmick. But, it’s nothing to lose your shit over.
Anyway, I’ve babbled on long enough. But, I hope you can see my perspective on this. Like I said, I’ve been at this 40+ years. I’ve seen trends in gaming come and go. What is going on now - and being excused by people - is downright disturbing to me and makes me wonder about the future of the industry.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:01 PM
Games are software. SAAS is the future of software

Axess - Today at 10:02 PM
Well, then, that will crash the industry
In my opinion based on my experience, that is.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:02 PM
or revolutionize it… one of the two

Axess - Today at 10:02 PM
People are being short changed.
The general public will get sick of it and move on like they do from any other fad.
Right now, it’s ‘cool’ to be a gamer. But…
if it suddenly starts affecting their wallets in a big way
Then they move on

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:03 PM
okay, then the general public can write their own softwares and design their own platforms

Axess - Today at 10:03 PM
And who’s left? Nerds who don’t like being ripped off.
They won’t. They’ll just move on to the next fad.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:05 PM
I’m pretty sure computer gaming has been elevated just a tad bit out of the fad column … sociologically speaking…
K-pop is a fad… well at least right now…

Axess - Today at 10:06 PM
A lot of computer gaming is in the realm of indie gaming, believe it or not. There’s a reason a ton of indie games are on Steam. Casuals love them.
So, they sell a bit.
Even that, though, is a fad.
Things pass and things change. It’s the way of life.
If the industry is going to do the ‘Games As A Service;’ model, they’re going to have to drop the price of their games at launch.
There is a big backlash against games that are just popping out DLC left and right after a $60 investment

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:07 PM
there will be no “price of games at launch” lol
you don’t see it yet

Axess - Today at 10:08 PM
Well, Destiny and Assassin’s Creed Origins were both $60 at launch.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:08 PM
soon you’ll be subscribing to your favorite publishing houses to have access to their latest games on release

Axess - Today at 10:08 PM
And they both follow the GAAS concept
They’re doing that already: EA Access, etc.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:08 PM
they will launch to exclusive subscription based platforms… like EA … or Games Pass
yeah… that is called “the vanguard”
Ubisoft is about to announce a service like EA has, and I beieve Bethesda has already talked about it publicly

Axess - Today at 10:11 PM
Well, if it gets fully adopted and we have no more complete games, then I will stop gaming and just focus on my backlog and older games until the industry collapses.
I’m not going to get fleeced by some company to keep buying their DLC forever.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:12 PM
instead of being $30 a year it’ll be more like $60 a year for early access, And I suspect they will eventually adopt a model that says all new games go into a repository after 3 months, and to get access in the first 3 months you’ll pay a premium $20 early access that’ll include some special bonus content or some shit

Axess - Today at 10:13 PM
If you bought the original Destiny, and then bought the expansions as they came out, you were paying near $200 for what would have been $60 + a $20 expansion pack last gen. That’s all Bobby Kotick (CEO of Activision). It’s his wet dream. He’s already said back last gen that he wanted to charge over $100 per game. And it looks like he got his wish.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:14 PM
pffft… small clams
lol
compared to what they will make with the subscription model
Axess - Today at 10:14 PM
Oh.
I thought you meant $200 was small clams for a game! :smile:
Yeah, it’s the Frog in the Boiling Water analogy
Nickel and Dime people over a long period of time and they’re less likely to notice

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:16 PM
I already “subscribe” to the subscription model… lol … 90% of my life is spent managing SAAS integrations

GrumpyInUt - Today at 10:17 PM
As long as there are kids with access to mom and dad’s credit card who don’t care, nothing will change. That’s what I see.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:18 PM
I have Origin Access for PC and EA access for Xbox, and to be honest… it’s really effin’ cool… that $60 a year combined gets me access to some games I really like

Axess - Today at 10:18 PM
Until they shut off access to those games after a certain amount of time
Oh, it’s coming, you can practically bet on it

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:19 PM
so… it’s a service
like netflix
that’s the point
it cycles
that’s WHY I subscribe to it
and why others will to

Axess - Today at 10:19 PM
So, do both services include all DLC for those games?

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:20 PM
if those games are in the services they are full releases
dlc is all included
if there is dlc

Axess - Today at 10:20 PM
NO games are full releases anymore - or very FEW of them.
Especially the AAA market

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:20 PM
you are still saying this wrong
no SOFTWARE

Axess - Today at 10:21 PM
I dunno, @ixL0N3W0LFxi , it really stinks of a big Trojan Horse to me.

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:21 PM
… and that is the nature of software development these days…

Axess - Today at 10:21 PM
One rule in life that ALWAYS plays out: “There’s always a catch.”
Especially in corporations.
I’ve worked for a few of them - including Microsoft

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:22 PM
sometimes the ink blot is just an ink blot

Axess - Today at 10:22 PM
LOL
Sorry, I’m too cynical for that. :wink:
Good talk, man. Time to settle in for the evening. :wink:

ixL0N3W0LFxi - Today at 10:23 PM
good night

Jammer - Today at 10:47 PM
I scrolled through and read some of this. For the love of everything stuff like this is perfect for the forums. The forums that Lala pays for and Grex works his ass off improving.(edited)

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Damn Axess between the gaming industry and social media I am surprised you even get on the internet anymore the way it bothers you. :grin:

Jokes aside gaming is still one of the cheapest forms of entertainment. Even if it does change, so what. If it’s something you enjoy there is nothing wrong with throwing money at it. Games switching to a service isn’t going to crash the industry. It may scare some old folks away but the younger generation won’t be phased by it. Hell even some of the older generation won’t care. Like myself. The reason… It’s how they have fun.

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This video explains it better than I did:

If the ‘Games As A Service’ model becomes more common, we will see less and less games. People will be too busy playing a single game with it’s constant content refreshing. World of Warcraft is a prime example. People were obsessed with that game at the time it was big and other MMO’s which were decent enough died off because everyone was playing WoW. Gamers, rightly so, didn’t want to lose all their progression in the constant content being added and went to no other MMO. Sure, a few MMO’s were successful and stuck around (like ESO), but they were few.

It’s amazing how you say that gamers not wanting to keep paying for their game they paid $60 for is not a big deal and that gaming is still an inexpensive hobby. That’s just stunning to me - no disrespect meant. It’s not an old, outdated concept to expect quality for the money you spend. “Games As A Service” is not inexpensive. A $60 game becomes a $200+ game over time with the GAAS model. All games will become MMOs. I don’t think it’s just the ‘older’ gamers who don’t like that idea.

On the flipside, if this is adopted as a model and accepted by gamers, then the companies should make the initial purchase of the game MUCH cheaper than $60. You may say it’s ‘inexpensive’. But, those of us who have to budget our money (the majority of people on the planet) have to be wise with where we ‘throw’ our money.

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Where you throw your money is your choice. My point was people are going to put money into things they enjoy. I don’t know many gamers that truly love gaming that are going to walk away because of a price hike or a change in the way games are given to us.

When I say it’s inexpensive I am comparing it to other hobbies I have or other forms of entertainment. By the hour it is the cheapest form of entertainment in my life.

You right I don’t have to watch my money like some. I also chose to stay single and not have children so that I could spend my money the way I see fit. There are many people who don’t like the way the gaming industry is going and there are many they don’t care or just accept it. At the end of the day if it’s not worth it to you then move on.

I buy a lot of games some are good, some are not. Some are services, some are not. None of it makes me want to stop gaming. Even if I had to buy less because it was more expensive I will still be a consumer in the industry until I no longer want to play video games.

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Well, if this model gets widely accepted and to keep enjoying a game I bought, I have to pay to continue or be left behind, I WILL stop buying new games. And I’m not alone. It’s not really an older gamer vs. younger gamer thing, though. I’ve talked to plenty of people in their 20’s who don’t like the idea of being milked like a cow by companies.

I honestly don’t think you’re seeing the whole picture here. You keep telling me, in a way: “If you don’t like it, leave.” That’s seriously disturbing to me. Not everyone likes the idea of having to keep paying for a game they bought for $60. I honestly don’t know what’s going on here. You’re the second person to claim that gaming is cheap ‘by the hour’ as a hobby. I don’t like what I’m beginning to see when different people keep repeating the same phrases in response to the same subject. That reeks of conditioning to me. I’m honestly stunned that people don’t find that disturbing.

Well, at the end of the day, I’ve been gaming for 40+ years. It’s a hobby I love and I have a colossal backlog of games if the industry turns into the pay-to-progress model of GAAS. It’s sad that people will leave the hobby they once loved because of corporate greed changing the industry to ‘service’ rather than a marketplace where you buy a game, maybe a DLC or 2 eventually, and that’s it. Not this steady stream of add-ons, micro-transactions, gambling loot boxes, and other ‘services’. Those things are you ‘servicing’ THEM, not the other way around.

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This is a great article on the problem with the GAAS model:

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First…

I was saying this in general. Not directed towards you. None fo this is directed directly at you just having a conversation about the topic. I mean this with all things not just gaming. That is the perk of being a consumer. Don’t like it, don’t buy it.

2nd…

Not conditioned. I am using actual numbers. When compared to say my other hobby fishing. Gaming is so much cheaper by the hour. Some people use movies for an example. The hourly cost for gaming is lower if you are actually playing your games.

3rd…

You keep saying this like the rest of us haven’t. You make it sound like those 40 years make you an expert. FYI my first gaming machine was a C64 and I have had most other consoles and a gaming PC since. This is all opinions. If you don’t care for it that is ok but it probably isn’t going to change much cause there are just as many that don’t give a shit or love gaming enough to keep forking out the hard earned cash.

BTW I totally get your points and I am not dismissing them. I am just showing that not everyone over analyzes the business side of gaming and can just enjoy it for what it is.

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Not at all. I’m just trying to show someone reading my posts that I’ve been in the hobby for a long time and I’m not new to it - which I have been accused of on a regular basis by trolls, etc. Not that you are one. But, it happens. So, I like to put that up front before the accusations come. It’s an automatic thing and not intended to try to elevate me above anyone else. I’m just another carbon unit like yourself.

And it’s not really ‘over-analysis’. If GAAS becomes a thing. Less new games will end up coming out as companies keep milking the old ones for years on end. Ubisoft has said they have no desire to make a Rainbow Six : Siege 2 because the first one is profitable due to the micro-transactions and paid DLC updates. That bothers me because I like new and fresh games instead of being stuck in the same game for years and years because they keep putting out new DLC, etc.

New developers won’t stand a chance with the GAAS being established.

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My first gaming machine was an abacus, so I got you both trumped. we called it pre-digital digital pong…

I know it don’t make sense… but did any of the 70’s?

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I don’t necessarily agree that fewer games will come out. Maybe fewer from AAA publishers, but the service mode has also allowed the new F2P model to arise ala Fortnite. I think what you’ll see in the future is that mode becoming even more popular, and older games may actually wait on AAA titles until later in the life cycle since these games that are service based are almost a completely different experience than when they launch. I know that for D3, I’ll likely sit it out until several month in just because both D1 and D2 have been way different games 6 months + after release.

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I think this is an excellent point.
Different doesn’t mean worse, or better.
It will be different.
Hell there could be whole services dedicated to Indy publications, hell… AAA publishers could start employing their own “Indy” houses to develop that sort of content for their services.
Who knows.
A giant spaghetti monster could telepathically direct all of gaming production from a vaulted throne of calamari and watermelon.

It’ll just be different. Those who adapt will thrive, those who don’t… will do something else… and the market will decide if they like it…

As physical media dies, so will the old model of distribution and sales.

Because games aint nothin but software, and when’s the last time you bought a physical copy of Adobe Premiere Suite, AutoCad, or even an OS?

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Just canceled a 2 year stint with Adobe After Effects. All our software for work is a service based thing (Office, Quickbooks, buildertrend, etc.). It’s already the present and will be even more prevalent in the future.

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Nothing in the industry currently has me worried.

Companies are continuing to make games.
It seems (to me) that there are more games being produced than ever before.

Obviously some companies will trend toward whatever is most profitable, others don’t always have that luxury (indie studios).

I initially struggled with the idea of GAAS, the enjoyment/hour/$ didn’t make sense to me but I’ve come around to understanding it.

If I spend $40 on a game and then play it for 6 months, versus $200 and then play it for 3 years - they pretty much equate out in terms of enjoyment for money.

Clearly I’d prefer to spend $10 and enjoy it for 10 years but that’s obviously (more) rare.

If I think a game is too much at launch, or I can’t qualify another purchase, I wait.
Sales still happen, servers stay online and patches can still be downloaded.

The only real exception I see is multiplayer games, if I miss the boat on those I might miss out completely. Even if it’s through playerbase decreasing rather than server shutdown.

So generally I play my backlog, buy the odd MP game at release and wait for sales on SP games.

I still get excited by the big presentations (E3 anyone?) and keep up with the current gaming podcasts, but I save a bit of money by waiting for sales sometimes.

To each their own.

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@Grex - sidenote. Did it always change the font type when you insert a hyperlink?

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Wow… I just can’t believe what I’m seeing.

Sorry, no disrespect to any of you, but I have to bow out of this whole conversation because it’s getting way too ‘Uncanny Valley’ to me.

Good luck with the GAAS stuff. I hope you’re right and it doesn’t adversely affect the industry.

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I want to make sure I understand how the annual pass would work:

You pay for the base game and all the expansions they plan on releasing for the year upfront?

If so, what happens if the game is a turd?

The way it is now, I can buy the game, play it but if I don’t like it I can choose not to buy any more DLC and I wont be out any money.

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I’m not sure this season pass is really the same as DLC…its more like premium content stuff…not more story…so you might be able to buy ala carte…we dont know yet…I suspect…it will also be different like the seasons now that if one season ends and you buy the next season you will not get that last season content…still waiting to details on this one.

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The way I understand how it will work after listening to a few destiny podcasts is all of the quality of life changes (ie bulk shader deletion, sandbox changes, weapon system changes, etc) will be available to ALL D2 players. The premium content is just for those who get the pass. Most of the creators from the community that I have listened to said that you can get the “base” expansion when it realeases and then get the pass after if you feel like it is worth it for you.

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Bungie has already said that they will reveal bundles that include all the different expansions and base game closer to the release of Forsaken.